tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post3245342704619551089..comments2023-04-26T10:22:33.141+01:00Comments on The Road to "Elder" ado: Should we plant new Churches?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-11704031954031048992008-09-12T10:59:00.000+01:002008-09-12T10:59:00.000+01:00It rests on the motivation of the individuals and ...<I> It rests on the motivation of the individuals and how they have heard from God - both are totally subjective and very difficult to judge. </I><BR/><BR/>Yeah. That's the old evangelical trump card, isn't it. "God told me to do it..." End of discussion. <BR/><BR/>One day I'm going to find a better response than "Whatever..."Jongudmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355906920547912762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-50775622598546330922008-09-10T17:34:00.000+01:002008-09-10T17:34:00.000+01:00Yes that definitely makes sense."Come here to us a...Yes that definitely makes sense.<BR/><BR/>"Come here to us and find Jesus!" has some mileage - but when we start to go to them, to new people, that's really exciting.<BR/><BR/>The anglican church I linked to in the post set up a satellite congregation on a new estate in their parish and that church must be close to 100 and is really visible in the community centre with an outreach cafe etc.Blue, with a hint of amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17689914726284208496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-37352327624421980502008-09-10T16:51:00.000+01:002008-09-10T16:51:00.000+01:00We are certainly looking at multiple services, and...We are certainly looking at multiple services, and indeed that is the medium term plan. We are also looking at possibilities for a larger building. But that still means restricting our activity to one location. By planting we can move into another part of our parish, where there are no existing churches. Doesn't that make more sense?Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-47424568465632815392008-09-10T12:50:00.000+01:002008-09-10T12:50:00.000+01:00Really valid points Jon.asking whether new church ...Really valid points Jon.<BR/><BR/><I>asking whether new church plants are being specifically set up simply because they genuinely desire to reach the lost in our area, which you assume in your statement quoted above</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I do assume that.<BR/><BR/>I would look at any church plant or any existing church on that criteria.<BR/><BR/>The whole "renewal / starting again" thing will never be truly resolved. It rests on the motivation of the individuals and how they have heard from God - both are totally subjective and very difficult to judge.<BR/><BR/><I>That may be the case, but surely a more efficient way of meeting those targets is to extend the reach of current churches where (if) that is possible.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, this is such a fine line and often depends on previous experience. You have to find a Church where you can be released to serve, be looked after etc. In Nottingham they have gone from 5 to 1200 since 1999 and hundreds of those are people who have come to faith in the Church. A posse of them want to replicate that mission somewhere else, they "get" each other, they know how each wants to "do" Church. Is it not more <I>efficient</I> for them to just crack on with it? Or do they need to go and try to work within another system? That is a difficult call. My pass out is "each to their own call". That is an act of grace for everybody.<BR/><BR/><I>And if you suspect there's other motivation at work, should you still be welcoming?</I><BR/><BR/>As welcoming as you would be to other believers who may have all sorts of motivations! You will have more in common with the guys moving down from Nottingham than you will with many of the other Churches in Cardiff in terms of mission, doctrine and practice of Church life. I assume you aren't unfriendly to them?!!<BR/><BR/>But I do agree that the whole issue of Church planting can be very messy indeed. I personally would not have encouraged a new Vineyard there so close in time to what happened before, not least because of how it looks to the other Churches around, who have picked up the pieces and the people of a difficult situation.<BR/><BR/>From what I remember of James he is a great guy and I would trust his motivations. But the timing is certainly unfortunate at best.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Peter <I>Our church building is full on Sunday mornings, and so is that of the old village church. Neither building can be extended very much. But we are reluctant to take the necessary steps to make space for new believers.</I><BR/><BR/>These are good challenges! The question then becomes multiple services, or multiple campuses, or new Churches. Thinking back to North Shrewsbury and them being an independant church plant did require a lot of redundant hard work just being a Church that Jon discusses. I wonder if multiple services with shared administration in a locality is not more efficient?Blue, with a hint of amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17689914726284208496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-19148432306426121292008-09-10T12:06:00.000+01:002008-09-10T12:06:00.000+01:00not being welcoming to other believers wanting to ...<I>not being welcoming to other believers wanting to reach the lost near you could suggest that you a) have a monopoly on the area because you were there first and b) are reaching everyone so you c) don't need any help and that they should join you instead because d) you are right and sufficient for the gospel where you are.</I><BR/><BR/>Valid point. <BR/><BR/>But setting up a new church instead of investigating whether you can work dynamically/ missionally in an existing church, does seem like you are prejudging existing churches to have failed in points b) and d), and be so irredeemably institutionalised that they can't fulfil those missional functions. That may be the case, but surely a more efficient way of meeting those targets is to extend the reach of current churches where (if) that is possible.<BR/><BR/>On an idealistic level, I'm pro church planting. Pragmatically, though, I still think we should be able to question whether a particular church plant will reach those ideals. In fact - asking whether new church plants are being specifically set up simply because they genuinely desire to reach the lost in our area, which you assume in your statement quoted above.<BR/><BR/>And if you suspect there's other motivation at work, should you still be welcoming?Jongudmundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13355906920547912762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5291591634697141288.post-42499163954429170132008-09-09T19:43:00.000+01:002008-09-09T19:43:00.000+01:00Another good reason for planting a new church, whi...Another good reason for planting a new church, which is happily more or less true in my part of my town, is that there is no room in existing churches for expansion and new believers. Our church building is full on Sunday mornings, and so is that of the old village church. Neither building can be extended very much. But we are reluctant to take the necessary steps to make space for new believers.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.com